Steve Litman, Charlie Goldstone and Brad Garrett discuss changes to the independent promoter industry in a world of giants like Live Nation and AEG. (VT Photo)
REPORTING FROM TACOMA, WASH. — It’s no secret that megacompanies like Live Nation and AEG have changed the industry for local and independent promoters, challenging the very specialties their name implies as they are forced to go out of their own markets in an attempt to keep their independence. This situation was a topic of discussion at the IAVM Region 2+3 Conference at St. Charles (Mo.) Convention Center, May 17-20. Steve Litman Presents, St. Louis, Mo.; Charlie Goldstone, Frank Productions, Madison, Wis.; and Brad Garrett, Police Productions, St. Louis, Mo., made up a panel of local, independent promoters ready to discuss how the business has changed for them and what venues can do to facilitate those relationships.
“When I got into this business,” said Litamn, “everybody sort of stayed in their own little turf, but those days are kind of gone as things have progressed. Independent promoters have had to become more versatile and have a larger scope of thinking.”
Litman has been promoting shows since 1973 and booking Fox Theatre, St. Louis, since 1985.
“I’ve seen a lot of changes in the industry, a lot of developing trends,” said Litman, “changes in financial elements and construction of the deals, changes in the risk-reward, changes in the relationships between promoters and venues and promoters and agents and all the parties. I think it’s an exciting business that we’re in, but I think it gets more challenging every day. Every year I say, it can’t get worse, and every year it does get worse.”
Garrett started Police Productions in 1994 after years of promoting. He was involved early on with a lot of big country acts, like Martina McBride, Miranda Lambert and Kenny Chesney.
“We’ve stayed standing, which as an independent promoter is enough,” said Garrett.
The Changing Industry
Litman described the “old days” of local promoters who were like the “mafia bosses” of their markets. They would get a crack at pretty much every show coming their way, and if they didn’t want it, you probably didn’t either. Today, that model has changed, and Litman has resigned himself to the fact that he’s not going to get any of the major touring acts.
“Live Nation or AEG is going to buy the tour, they’re going to overpay for the act in St. Louis so they can get the act in Chicago and Philadelphia, etc,” said Litman. “It’s a different mindset and a different set of economics. And these behemoths have other revenue streams and attachments they’re in that we’re simply not in, so their motivations are different.”
Instead, Litman “feeds at a different trough” and focuses his efforts on secondary and tertiary markets and the acts that can and will play the venues there.
“Fortunately, Live Nation and AEG are so busy fighting over their troughs that it does leave some things, particularly in secondary markets that they’re not that active or interested in,” said Litman.
Goldstone said that even with change in the industry, independent promoters are still able to do a few things to set themselves apart. Solid relationships with managers, agents and artists becomes key. If you make sure they’re taken care of, they won’t have a reason to go anywhere else.
“We want the bands to feel like they have a local promoter, even if we’re not based there,” said Goldstone. “We do that by doing a lot of research on the road, by knowing the buildings and by never pawning anything off on someone else.”
Garrett also suggested keeping your eye out for the next big thing and attaching to that artist before the Live Nations and AEGs do. WIth artists like Miranda Lambert, Garrett said the model has become a seven-year process, where they tread water for a year or two, have some really big years and then lose them to Live Nation and AEG,
“We’ve had to adapt, and I think we’re going to have to adapt again,” said Garrett. “I see the corporate guys getting into venues and festivals. They’re going to try to flip the tables again. And I don’t begrudge them doing that, but that doesn’t mean you can’t figure out a way to make money and stay alive. There are just fewer of us doing it.”
The Venue Side
For venues trying to work more with local promoters to get shows in their rooms, Litman said if it’s a building he’s never worked with before, he’s going to want to know what kind of support he’ll get from the venue. Is the marketing strong, with good relationships in the marketplace and with the media? Is the venue active on social media? Do they know the history of their market and the shows they’ve had at the building? Litman said the most important part is a competent staff that he and the artist can talk to and make them feel confident about coming into the venue.
“A lot of it comes down to history in the marketplace and what else we’ve done there that was successful,” added Goldstone. “If I’ve been to your marketplace, then you’re on the list next time I have a similar act. If I haven’t done business with you and you want to be considered for a show, the first thing I always ask a building is why? It can’t always just be about offering me the best rebate deal. Figuring out that there’s data to support the show is really important.”
Accurate information and open communication are vital to the process as well. Being open with promoters about the economy, what events are happening in the area and the track record of similar shows at the building all play into it and should be accurately communicated.
“Venues need to have the mindset that they’re in the hospitality business not only for the patrons, but also for the promoters,” said Goldstone. “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve received a tech packet and then showed up at the venue and there’s some glaring falsehood. It’s our reputation in the line. We’re supposed to know this stuff, so it’s very important that we do.”
Garrett suggested that venue managers have their story together. Are you 70 miles from a major market? What’s your capacity? What amphitheaters are around you? Know the facts and be able to communicate them concisely.
“We are in the business of risk evaluation, so all things being equal, the less risk the better it looks to us and the more likely we’re going to come.”
He also encouraged venue managers to be persistent. If he hasn’t worked with a building before, it won’t be at the top of his mind when it comes to routing, until he needs it to be.
“When you start to route a tour, I’m gravitating to people where I’ve had good experiences in general,” said Garrett. “So, if you’re new to me or I don’t know you exist, bug me until I actually answer you. I might be stuck on a routing thing and then I’ll remember you.”
Self Promoting
All the panelists cautioned venues that have or are considering buying their own shows. Just like back in the day when you probably didn’t want a show that the local promoter passed up on, find out why no promoters were interested in getting involved with the show.
“Beware when somebody calls and tells you you’re so lucky to get this phone call,” said Garrett. “I would always ask why isn’t my local promoter doing it, why isn’t Live Nation doing it, why isn’t AEG doing it? Why am I so lucky?”
He said often agents will offer shows to some venues without ever actually intending to give it to them but are just trying to drive up the price at another building.
“I understand why a lot of buildings have to take their destiny into their own hands,” said Goldstone, “especially if they’re in a market that isn’t being serviced by a promoter. Sometimes it’s just laziness on the agent’s part. But I would encourage people to look for a promoting partner, because promoters have something to add to that situation in experience.”
Interviewed for this story: Steve Litman, (314) 726-0844; Brad Garrett, (636) 887-3666; Charlie Goldstone, (608) 284-5460